HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: There’s nothing like it. Pub day. NO matter how many books, no matter how many successes. The brilliant and talented and thoughtful incredibly generous Sally Goldenbaum has a book birthday today—in national chaos, in a pandemic, and having no idea what’s going to happen next, Sally perseveres, and we, her sisters , celebrate with her.
Sally has had endless successes—and a fascinating journey. She’s written more than three dozen published novels! Most recently the USA TODAY best selling Seaside Knitters Society Mystery Series, including the Thorpe Menn nominated How to Knit a Murder. The series is set in the fictional town of Sea Harbor, MA. She also writes the Queen Bees Quilting Mystery Series. She’s a dear writing pal of the iconic Nancy Pickard.
Quick bio? Sally was born in Manitowoc, Wisconsin, raised her family in Prairie Village, Kansas, and now lives in Gloucester MA with her husband, Don. In addition to writing mysteries, Sally has taught philosophy, Latin, and creative writing, edited bioethics and veterinary healthcare journals, and worked in public television at WQED-Pittsburgh.
Is knitting a metaphor? You start with an idea, and learn how to do it, and persevere, and make mistakes along the way, sometimes having to pull out your mistakes and do it all again. If you drop a stitch, or miss the pattern, or miscount…well, you see what I mean. And in the end—you get a glorious and unique treasure. And you get to share it with those you love---and who love you back.
Happy pub day, dear Sally!
HANK: Do you remember the very first time you thought: I’m going to write a book, and I can do it.
Hmm. I went through years of wanting to write a book, but not sure I could finish one. That resulted in a drawer-full of half-finished manuscripts. I didn’t become confident I could actually write a whole book until I joined forces with a friend. We both had those drawers of unfinished books. So we thought, “Aha! How about if we write a book together, forcing the other to see it through to the end.
The hitch was that Adrienne was interested in writing young adult books and I was interested in writing women’s fiction/family sagas. However, our main goal was not the genre, but proving that we could write an entire book. At that time, the largest section of books in our local B. Dalton (which instantly ages me) was romances—so we thought we’d give that a try. We spent hours reading back covers, then went home and literally sat together writing, with preschoolers playing in the next room. A few months later we had done it. We had finished a book.
We were naïve and a bit huffy about it all, absolutely certain it would sell.
HANK: Did that first book sell?
Did it sell? No. Shortly after sending our opus in, we received a letter from from the publisher. A rejection letter. And not only that, it was a form rejection letter and didn’t even have a signature at the end.
Our last hope was a local writer’s conference that we’d decided to attend if the book didn’t sell. We went for one day, hoping to meet a New York agent who could explain the publisher’s blind sightedness to us. The agent was friendly and nice (and is still my agent these hundreds of years later)—but had some plain, honest words for us: “You don’t have a clue what today’s romance novels are about.”
Then she gave us a few samples of wonderful, contemporary romance books and suggested we write two chapters of one that had the spirit of “Cheers” (a popular sitcom at the time) and send it to her. So we did. And this incredible agent sold it! (We were truly lucky—it was the era of mass publishing in that genre.)
HANK: Love that! How many of your books have been published since then?
About 40, the last 19 or 20 being mysteries. The newest (and 15th mystery about the seaside knitters), A Crime of a Different Stripe, comes out this month.
HANK: Amazing. What do you think about that?
When I went back to count, the number surprised me. I love writing the mystery series I’m working on now and feel fortunate to be a part of the amazing mystery writing and reading community. But I still haven’t written my stand-alone family saga. A Sunday project.
HANK: Gotta know, got to ask. Do you outline? Has your method changed over the years?
I don’t use an outline, but I wish I could. I’ve tried and failed miserably. Some months ago a close writer friend and I holed up for a few days in a Folly Island cottage and studied a method of outlining scripts and novels explained in two books, Save the Cat and Save the Cat Writes a Novel. It was interesting, but I simply can’t seem to effectively write a novel unless I allow (and hope and pray) it takes on a life of its own and the characters lead me along.
I begin with a vague idea that I send to my editor—a one-page sketch that doesn’t include much detail, and never includes the murderer. (I tell myself it’s because the editor can read the final manuscript from a surprise perspective that way, but it’s usually because I don’t know who did it.) In A Crime of a Different Stripe I knew who would die, but had absolutely NO idea who would kill him—or why. It was painful for a while, trying to figure it out, but my four women protagonists came to the rescue and figured it out.
The one time I did know the murderer from the beginning, I sent the completed manuscript in and got a call from my very astute editor, who said she liked the story, but there was just one problem: the wrong person did it. (And she was oh-so-right.) I learned a lesson: if I know who the murderer is from page one, my readers might, too.)
HANK: SO agree! What is the hardest part of the book for you?
The first couple of chapters are usually not that difficult. I find a character or a scene or a happenstance that I can have creative fun with and the writing comes fairly easily. But when I need to delve into the heart of the mystery and make some sense of those first introductory chapters, it gets difficult. Blank computer pages are the stuff of my nightmares. The last part of the book comes more easily for me. By then I finally know what is happening.
HANK: Is your first draft always terrible? Has it always been?
That’s an interesting question. I don’t do the traditional first draft, writing a book all the way through and then going back and ‘fixing it’. My process resembles one of those coiled slinky toys. I constantly rewrite, every day, sometimes every hour, going back over what’s already there, circling back again and again and again. I have trouble letting go of a chapter until I feel good about it. And then two chapters later, if something changes in the action, I go back again, sometimes all the way to the beginning, smoothing and polishing. So by the time I’ve finally finished a book, it’s almost complete.
HANK: Was there ever a time when you thought you would give up writing?
Yes. Each book is more difficult for me to write than the last one—and on page 150 or 200 or so I am thinking that maybe this is going to be the last one. Who would want to be read another? But then a manuscript gets finished. And I really like it. So I re-evaluate, and then I start in on another mystery, wondering who the murderer will be. . .and hoping that along the way, my characters will let me know.
HANK: How often in your process do you have doubts about what you’re doing?
What a good question! The thought that ‘Is this really a book?’ creeps in when least expected—and often. It usually happens in the first quarter of the book, then again in the middle when I am trying to solve the mystery.
And when writing a series, there’s another kind of doubt that creeps in, especially when the series is 14 or 15 books long, like the Seaside Knitters mysteries. I sometimes worry about whether I should be writing another. Will readers want more in the lives of these four women? Are they [readers] needing something new? But I think all of those doubts and worries are part of the process, maybe necessary ones, so that we can sit back and let the thoughts settle, throwing out a chapter or two sometimes if needed, but often the feeling is simply a ‘down’ moment and nothing drastic needs to be done except to take a deep breath, plunge back in and keep going. And in regard to a series, it’s a time to dig a little deeper into the now-familiar characters, an opportunity to make it fresh.
HANK: So, what do you tell yourself during those moments of writing fear?
Sometimes I google what others have said about living through those moments, or I pick up a book—Annie Lamott or other books on writing. Even though other writers’ advice are gems we’ve heard, things we all know—sayings like “Give yourself permission to write poorly—at least you’ll have something to make better,” or “Writing is like driving at night in the fog; you can only see as far as your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way”— in moments of writing despair these sayings take on new meaning for me and almost always get me back to the computer.
HANK: Do you have a writing quirk you have to watch out for?
Sometimes a simple word gets stuck in my head—e.g., ‘platter’—and I find I have used it on every page. I used platter as an example because a reader once wrote me that she counted, and I had used that word twenty-seven times (you can tell the characters in my series eat a lot).
HANK: What’s one writing thing you always do—write every day? Never stop at the end of a chapter? Write first thing in the morning?
Recently I’ve discovered that the things I ‘always do’, have been changing, often dictated on changes in my life. I used to write almost every morning to early afternoon, except when a deadline was looming, and I’d have to hibernate and work from dawn to dusk. But with the manuscript I just finished, I found that going to bed early and getting up at 4:30 worked really well for me. I was more productive at that early hour (and I’m not even a morning person!).
I do try to finish a chapter before closing down my laptop, but I also try to add at least a line or two of the next chapter so that I’m not completely paralyzed when I turn my laptop on the next morning.
HANK: I do that, too. How do you know when your book is finished?
There are two things I try to accomplish in a story, and when I’ve done that, I know the story has ended:
- The mystery has been believably solved, with all unanswered questions legitimately answered, with no deus ex machinas tossed in; and
- The emotional element, usually the side story or subplot, is resolved in a way that I think will please my readers and me.
HANK: What is the biggest mistake you see in people’s manuscripts?
Sometimes I think books are tied up too quickly at the end. I worry about doing that in my own writing and often have to go back several times to correct the impulse.
HANK: Do you think anyone can be taught to be a better writer?
Oh, gosh, I hope so. I try hard to become a better writer every time I write a book (or a grocery list or email to my kids). Often before I begin a book, I’ll pick out something in particular that I want to improve on, like how to smoothly segue from one scene to another, or ways to describe a character without it seeming stilted, or how to handle backstory.
And most often, I learn how to be a better writer from reading. I’ll pick up a book of a writer I admire, whose way with words and sentences, or plotting and pacing, or building emotion, leave me in awe. I read and re-read sections of these books. And I learn and learn.
HANK: How do you feel about…stuff? Writing swag handouts giveaways that kind of thing. Do you think it matters? Do you have it?
I am always impressed at the creativity of authors in creating swag. But I’ve never used swag myself. I’m not sure whether it increases sales or not, but with limited time and resources, I’ve settled for bookmarks with a list of books and contact info on them.
HANK: You’ve seen so much change in the publishing industry, what do you think new writers need to know about that?
Since so many new writers are already in touch with the biggest changes—audio and e-books, social media marketing, self-publishing, etc.—the changes may be natural ones for them. I think one area of change writers do need to pay attention to (and be prepared for) is the change in marketing books, certainly in this age of the pandemic. While years ago this was largely the responsibility of the publisher, now, at least for midlist writers, marketing is largely on the writer’s shoulders. It involves everything from an active presence on social media platforms to author newsletters and virtual author book tours and release parties. A whole new industry of virtual assistants seems to have popped up because of this, and authors, who aren’t tech savvy, may need to consider getting this kind of help.
One other thing that is actually on the upswing, and is good news for new writers, is the number of emerging small independent publishers, such as Crooked Lane and a host of others, who welcome new writers and provide fine, nurturing support.
HANK: You’ve been so successful, why do you think that is? What secret of yours can we bottle up and rely on?
Thanks, Hank, that’s very kind of you to say, especially considering your amazing success.
I read recently that the most necessary element in writing is persistence. And I truly believe that.
An aside: I also think there’s a healthy dose of luck that helps in longevity. Writing mysteries opened up to me when a close friend and successful mystery writer was struggling with two contracts and asked me to help with one of the mysteries. I had never written a mystery before but that didn’t seem to bother her. So my first published mystery was one I wrote with an accomplished mystery writer; I was tutored along by a master. That’s luck. And I’m grateful for it. So if it comes to new writers’ in any form—someone you meet at a conference who offers to mention your book to her agent, or to read your manuscript (mystery writers are so good about things like this)—grab on to her or him and cherish the opportunity.
HANK: What book are you are reading right now?
I’m almost finished with Crossing to Safety. The Story of Arthur Truluv, Fidelity, The Accidental Tourist, and The Secret Life of Bees are waiting on my desk. Somehow these unusual months have sent me back to re-reading older books that have somehow brought me comfort, kind of like being with old friends.
HANK: Give us one piece of writing advice!
It’s cliched, I know, but I truly think the most important thing for writers to do is to read every single day—and then write. Every day.
Hank, thank you so much! What a pleasure this has been for me. I’ve loved the time spent with you and rethinking this career that we both love.
HANK: Aw, my pleasure. Always such a treat to chat with you—even via email! SO how about you, Sisters and misters? Let’s do something fun. Do you have a writing quirk?
And don’t forget to look for Sally’s brand new book!
A Crime of a Different Stripe
As sleepy Sea Harbor, Massachusetts settles into the glow of autumn, a baby-on-the-way has the Seaside Knitters feeling warm and fuzzy. Only, these crafty ladies can’t get too cozy when sweater weather delivers an unexpected arrival—murder!
While no-nonsense mother-to-be Cass Halloran tries downplaying her pregnancy and her frequent doctor’s visits as an “older” mother-to-be, a softer side of the lobsterwoman emerges as she joins the Seaside Knitters in knitting an abundance of delicate hats and booties. But in contrast to the happy news, terrifying events unfold at the town’s art series that puts a real chill in their New England fall . . .
Izzy Perry’s husband Sam had reservations about inviting his one-time mentor Harrison Grant to speak at the opening reception, although he never imagined the famed and charismatic photographer would rudely embarrass his hosts that evening. But when a dead body turns up along the wooded shoreline the next day, startling secrets come into focus that could undo the tight-knit community of local artists . . .
With a mysterious murder pitting neighbors against each other, Izzy, Birdie, Nell, and a vulnerable Cass find themselves entangled in a dangerous hunt for answers. Can four best friends somehow tie together scattered clues and pacify a list of potential culprits before a cascade of fallen foliage buries the pièce de résistance of a ruthless killer?
Sally Goldenbaum is the author of 35-plus novels, including the Seaside Knitters [Society] Mystery series. She and her husband recently moved to Cape Ann , the inspiration for the seaside mysteries.
HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN is the USA Today bestselling author of 12 thrillers, winning the most prestigious awards in the genre: five Agathas, three Anthonys, the Daphne, and the coveted Mary Higgins Clark Award. She is also the on-air investigative reporter for Boston's WHDH-TV, with 37 EMMYs and dozens more journalism honors. Book critics call her “a master of suspense.” THE MURDER LIST is a current Agatha, Anthony, Macavity and Mary Higgins Clark Award nominee. Hank’s newest novel is THE FIRST TO LIE, and the Publishers Weekly starred review says "Stellar… Hank Phillippi Ryan could win a sixth Agatha with this one."